Moparts Tech Archive
Valve Bodies ?'sCHEETAH Manual SP Valve Body ??????
Are these any good ?
Are the shifts pretty firm ?
I am using a Cheetah full manual forward/SP pattern VB with a Hurst Quarter Stick, works great.
Boydz....I run a Cheetah in my 64 Polara drag car....It is the reverse one. I had a Tranzact in there and it was a pile of crap!!
Anyone running one on a street/strip car? If i cant get the bugs worked out my transgo TF3 manual VB kit im going to get one of these.
My ride is/was a street/strip daily driver before I pulled the motor last fall, should be back on the road in about 4wks.
Don't know how the forward pattern feals but the Cheetah reverse pattern shifts hard 1-2 & 2-3 (I like it) Have on in my '78 4x4 W/35" tires and it will bark 2nd and 3rd gear shifts. Also if you get the reverse pattern your slap stick is useless, so if you want to keep the slap stick go with forward pattern.
I am running the reverse pattern in my car. With a 8" converter it takes the harshness out of the shifts alot. The shifts are QUICK. Tach drops hard and fast as soon as you touch the lever. I love how the box came with POSITEVLY NOT FOR STREET USE stamped all over it...that just means its perfect for the street. It goes with the slicks I drive around on lol
If the SP Cheetah shifts anything like the reverse pattern Cheetah I was using before the shifts are extremely hard- I loved it! I used that valve body in a '67 Valiant with a 360 , 727 , and 3.23(?) gears with 205/75/14 radials and it would spin for 60-75 feet on the 1-2 shift and 40-50 feet on the 2-3 shift , it was a blast on the street. In normal driving it will chirp the tires hard when you shift it and the more gas you give it the harder it will spin.
I'm with bad340fish on this one. Just wanted to add I got my 727 trans used with the t/a manual valve body, etc. I had it freshened by a friend and its been in the car for 5 years street & strip. Can't beat the $400 total investment! My 8" Coan converter was almost $900 though.
im running the reverse manual T/A valve body, shifts are awesome, will make you spill your coffee, lol. mine will screech the 28x10.5 ET Drag slicks on the 1-2 shift at the track. real fun on the street too. im using the hurst 1/4 stick shifter, love that thing too.
I use the Cheetah sp valvebody in my 67 dart drag car. it is awesome. i like to use neutral because i have aluminum rods in my motor. the transmission shifts very positive but not insanely hard like the rp valve bodies. i am happy with it.
Whats with no engine braking in 1st? how does that work? You down shift to 1st and _____ happens? nothing till BANG it grabs 1st again?
CrAlt, "Whats with no engine braking in 1st? how does that work? You down shift to 1st and _____ happens? nothing till BANG it grabs 1st again?"
You don't want to let the rpms drop while coasting and them mat the throttle.
Some valve bodies engage the rear band in "1" for engine breaking, and some don't for quicker 1-2 shift. If your's doesn't have the rear band apply in "1", then the sprag takes all the load. That is fine unless you get on and off the gas and then back on. When you get back on it, the rollers in the sprag take a pounding. That is asking for a sprag failure.
From What I understand from the link I posted above is there is no kickdown linkage required because its Manual but with a standard shift pattern. They also do make a regular hipo VB that requires a kickdown but the shifting if not Manual.
Thanx for the headsup hemiallen
Here is the quote form TA
The CHEETAH Manual SP Valve Body is in answer to many requests for a stock pattern full manual valve body that works great and can be used with a stock Mopar slap stick shifter. This valve body will also work great with our CHEETAH SCS SHIFTER. The CHEETAH Manual SP Valve Body has no engine compression braking in first gear. No kickdown linkage required. Instant neutral from the high gear position. Solid and instant shifts will bring great performance and longevity to your 1966-92 non-lockup Torqueflite "727" or "904" transmission. Place your orders now.
The Cheetah Manual SP Valvebody, P/N 17680 DOES NOT REQUIRE a kickdown linkage. This VB is a full manual unit, no auto shift features, no engine braking in 1st, and a forward pattern.
Sounds great how much does cost and how much do you think to pay someone to put it in my car, use to run 13.2@107 with 3.23 gears use to go through the traps in 2 gear because i was slow close to the line it took longer for my car to shift from 2 to 3rd than to run it through in 2 gear lost 2 races waiting for the drive shift i know i was not making power up there either 27.4 tire dia was like 6600 valve float.
A-body guy, you need to get quotes from a local installer.
If its just a swap then it isnt all that hard to put in.
I love my cheetah in my 72 Dodge Demon 360.
I just recently bought a Transgo TF-3 shift kit, with the hurst quarter stick,how's the tf-3?Can't wait to get mine installed
Im havnig tons of fun with the TF3...
A-body, its a real easy swap really. Do just as the above post mentioned. I would recomend torquing them to the OEM specs(100 in lbs) just to be safe. I have moved mine around 5 or 6 times and never had any troubles on the installs. It has to have been one of the best mods I did to my car. How much are they now?? I think mine was like $125 a few years ago
info provided by members listed above
Installing TA manual vb questions
Me and a buddy are going to start the installation of the vb tomorow morning..first time working on any trans...we will be doing this in my garage...anyone got any tips on installing it? also,is it easily installable with doing it that way compared to on a lift?sorry for the ignorant questions..
EASY!! Just follow the instructions that came with the valve body.Adjust the bands and use a deep pan.That's it.
I posted this once not long ago too. My printer did'nt work that well that day but the only problem mentioned was getting the park rod out and back in. They say sometimes its easy sometimes its hard. One other comment from CD made me think though. He had a sprag let go on him and thinks it would have lived had he not had the manual valve body or if he had a prepped trans with an aluminum front drum and bolt in sprag. I have those things in my 69 Bee transmission that I had built with a manual valve body but they are not in this 70 RR transmission I have. After seeing photos of what his did and thinking about what might have happened if he had'nt had a trans shield made me deciede to put in the new auto/manual valve body from Turbo action that they say is about as fast in a shift as their full manual. I have the same trans shield CD has but I don't wanna rebuilt the trans or buy a new shield LOL. Best of luck to you.
This is why they are recommended for competition only and not on the street. They have no braking in 1st gear decelleration and can explode a sprag if decellerting in 1st and reapplying the throttle. For teh street i would use the forward pattern valve body. I have one in the street car and I believe that it is as quick as that full manual. The advantage of the full manual reverse pattern is that when shifting up in competition you don't have to worry about over shifting and hitting N
Valve body install
Guys my 70 dual quad RR should fire up in a few days. I put in the radiator today and I only like a few other details. I have a deep Aluminum trans pan I'm gonna install before I drive it after the cam breaks in on the stands but I think since I've got the pan off I might as well stick in a new valve body.
If it's not a trans brake vb, you shouldn't need to drill anything. Remove the pan, remove the filter. Remove the shifter cable or rod and the shifter bracket from the trans. Remove the perimeter bolts around the current valve body. You will have to wiggle it around a little to get the parking pawl disengaged. Depending on whats included with your new vb you may have to transfer your old park rod to the new vb. The tricky part is getting that park rod back in place. Sometimes it slides right back in and other times you'll have to rotate the driveshaft or rear tires back and forth till it drops in. Be sure to adjust your shift linkage when done. You will get some fairly clear instructions from Turbo Action, so get some wrenches and dive in there, it's not that bad.
rrsbdh, sounds like nhra mark covered it pretty well, especialy the tip about the park rod and twisting the drive shaft(IIRC I had to do that to get it both in and out).
The service manual instructions are fairly detailed and are in the tech area in the trans sections.
As far as valve bodies go, if it is going to be driven on the street, go with an automatic style valve body, it is easier on the trans, and I feel it is a cop out to install a manual since most people don't want to or can't figure out the TV (kickdown) linkage. Good luck with it.
Since I've got to pull the tranny pan anyway
I've got a 73 Challenger, 340, 727, 3.23 SG, that leaks a red river of tranny fluid after sitting a few days. When I first got it, I thought it was the pan gasket that was leaking, so I pulled the pan, took out the valve body, took out the accumulator spring, and cranked in the line pressure spring to 1 9/32", changed the filter, installed a new gasket, and put an extra tranny cooler on.
The red river is still flowing though. I thought it was the front seal that was leaking because when I looked underneath the car it was dripping off of the bellhousing like it was coming from that area, but, when I took off the inspection cover there was no tranny fluid inside there, which is cool because I don't have to pull the tranny, but I still didn't know where the leak was for sure, because everything under the car from the bellhousing back had tranny fluid on it, so last weekend I cleaned everything with carb cleaner and started it up, put it in neutral and let it idle till it warmed up but I still couldn't see where the leak was coming from.
I went out today and looked, and it looks like it's leaking around either where the selector shaft goes through the case, or possibly it's the seal between the kickdown shaft and the selector, either way it's gotta come apart.
I'm getting ready to drive over to Jegs tonight and pick up a Turbo Action Pro Street Automatic valve body #17676 which is supposed to have a much better 2-3 shift and I'm hoping it will improve manual shifting between gears. I'm also thinking of getting a MP chrome pan while I'm there. Is there anything else I can do to tweak it while I have the pan off? I've got 727 parts from various 60's-early 70's transmissions that I've taken apart. What is the good stuff that I can swap/modify while I have it apart? I'm gonna start on it tomorrow morning/afternoon since it's supposed to be nice out
Check the filler tube O ring !!! Bet thats whats leaking !
If it is the shifter seal you don't have to take off the pan. Up to you though.
Your improved 1-2 upshifts are the result of cranking up the line pressure, removing the accumulator spring did nothing of benefit.
I'm back from the road trip to Jegs (little over 4 hour round trip) and I've got the new valve body in my sweaty little hands. I didn't get the MP pan because it wasn't in stock at the store I was at, and it was about 15 minutes before closing time, so I didn't have time to drive over to the other store and get one. I did get a drain plug though.
swlabr: I re-checked around the dipstick tube and it's still clean and dry.
Andrewh: I know I could spend 25 bucks on a special tool to change the seal, and I would if I thought I'd use it more than once, but it's not that big of a deal to pull the valve body, I've done it enough times that I've learned how to only take a quick ATF shower, instead of a full body bath, anyway it's a good excuse to upgrade:P
John Kunkel: I thought that the accumulator spring acted as a kind of a buffer, or shock absorber type thing to smooth the shift. I've read a couple different places where they say to take it out and pitch it, and the instructions from Turbo Action say to do the same. What is the purpose of the spring, and how does it affect the way it shifts? I'm curious now. I figured the lazy 1-2 shifts were caused by something dragging or being out of sync, but I wasn't sure exactly what it was. I've got an understanding of how the mechanical things operate, but I've got some studying to do before I fully understand exactly how everything in the valve body/hydraulics work.
I thought that the accumulator spring acted as a kind of a buffer, or shock absorber type thing to smooth the shift.
So does 99% of the Mopar world, it's a myth spread by everyone, even magazine gurus and transmission tech lines.
I've read a couple different places where they say to take it out and pitch it, and the instructions from Turbo Action say to do the same.
Whoever says to pitch it for shift improvement is wrong, plain and simple. If there's any other reason to pitch it (other than a 1 ounce weight saving) I can't imagine what it would be. It serves a purpose.
What is the purpose of the spring, and how does it affect the way it shifts?
The spring has no effect on shifting, it's sole purpose is to position the accumulator piston when there is no pressure on the system. When the trans is placed in a forward gear, pressure acts on the piston and pushes it against the spring which cushions the application of the rear clutch and protects the clutch spring. This is done when the car is at a standstill.
The confusion comes about because of the known fact that the accumulator cushions the 1-2 upshift. The accumulator cushions the upshift hydraulically, the spring plays no part in it.
John Kunkel: Thanks for the info. Sometimes it seems like the more I learn, the less I actually know I'm gonna build a big block tranny in the future and I really like the idea of rollerizing it
There's a strut that goes between the band and the lever that you have to take out in order to let the lever swing out of the way, so you can change springs. There's not much room to get the strut out, certainly not enough room to get your fingers in, so you have to use a couple of screwdrivers to dislodge the strut, I had trouble at first, then I re-read the instructions and looked at the picture showing how to do it, crawled back under the car and after a couple more trys, it popped right out.
I removed the snap ring, spring retainer, spring, and piston then I cleaned and inspected everything for cracks, excessive wear, etc. While I had the pison out I decided to modify it to make it solid by adding a spacer between the piston plug and the piston like it shows here http://pages.moparpages.com/440Jim/website/id4trans.html
I disassembled the piston and took the plug and the spring with me to the hardware store to find something to use for a spacer. I found that hole in a 7/16" washer fit over the piston plug but wouldn't fit inside the spring. The hole in the washer also fit over a 1/2" bolt pretty good, so I got four 7/16" washers and a 1/2" bolt and nut, put the washers on the bolt, and tightened the nut down so it clamped the washers together good and tight, then I chucked up the nut in a lathe and turned down the o.d. of the washers to fit inside the spring. I imagine that if you didn't have access to a lathe you could grind the o.d. down, or get washers that fit inside the spring and drill out the i.d. to fit over the piston plug.
I ended up only using 3 modified washers when I put the piston assembly back together. I used a ball joint socket and a hydraulic bottle jack to carefully compress the new heavier spring back into the case and hold it while I put the snap ring back in place. Worked like a charm. It took a couple trys to get the strut back in place using screwdrivers, but it finally popped back in. I snugged the band adjuster down and backed it off 3 turns per the instructions. I hope this is still the proper adjustment with a modified piston.
I put the new valve body and filter in and drilled the pan and put a drain plug kit in it, then I sealed everything up, checked the front band adjustment, reconnected the linkage, and filled it up with "Type F" fluid while idling in neutral, then ran it through the gears while it was still up on jackstands to get fluid circulated through everything before I took it out for a test drive.
I put it in reverse to back out of the driveway and BAM! it goes into gear rather harshly (or maybe there was an Emeril Lagasse under the hood and he got scared and jumped into the fan), I'm wondering if this is a result of modifying the piston, or if it's just the way the new valve body works, either way I don't particularly care for it.
I put it in drive and start cruising around town letting it shift on it's own. The 1-2 shift is a little firmer than it was before and the 2-3 shift is quicker/firmer than it was. Under light throttle it seems to get into 3rd gear sooner than it did. Nothing exploded or burst into flames so I headed out of town.
Under full throttle, with the selector in "D", the 1-2 shift is about as firm as it was before, or maybe a tiny bit less firm than it was. The 2-3 shift is much firmer/quicker than it was, it's not quite as firm as the 1-2 shift, but it's significantly better than it was.
I stopped, pulled it down in low, and shifted manually. The 1-2 shift is vastly improved, it's quicker, firmer, and no more dragging rear band! The 2-3 shift is also quicker/firmer. Then it started raining, so I took it easy. :P
It finally functions more like I think it should. I mean, why have a cool Slap Stik shifter in a car if the tranny doesn't work as well as the shifter? I would like for the 2-3 shifts to be a bit firmer, . In hindsight, I wish I would have swapped the kickdown servo for an earlier solid one. I'm pretty sure I've got a few laying around, but I didnt think of it till I had it back together. I was in kind of a hurry because the sky was getting dark and I wanted to get it sealed up before it started raining.
I've driven it around between downpours for the last couple days. I went to Wally World, came out, hit the key, and nada, no click, nothing! I popped the hood and checked the battery connection and it was ok. Headlights worked, so I tried putting it in neutral and still no signs of life. I shorted out the solenoid and it cranked over, so I turned on the ignition and shorted it out again and it fired up. I drove it home and parked it. I figure it's the switch on the transmission I'm sure glad I added the drain plug now.
Everything is a compromise, the rigidized rear servo piston and the heavy spring make for a quicker band release on the 1-2 upshift but the two mods place extra strain on the rear band and its anchor linkage. The heavy spring also strains the tin retainer, sometimes beyond its limits. If you want the parts to live it's essential that the rear band adjustment be kept up, if the free play becomes excessive the piston slams the components even harder and there's more chance of breakage.