Moparts Tech Archive
Elec Topics
Who Has Info On A Dual-field Alternator Conversion?
Who Has Info On A Dual-field Alternator Conversion?Author Topic: Who Has Info On A Dual-field Alternator Conversion?
69 1/2 Sixpack Bee
Moparts Member
Posts: 824
From: Ontario, California USofA
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 08-22-2002 03:44 PM
I am thinking of putting on a "squareback" alternator in place of my 40 amp."no charge at idle" original.
Anyone have conversion instructions they can e-mail me?
Thanx!
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John Kunkel
Moparts Member
Posts: 2396
From: Rio Linda, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 08-22-2002 04:03 PM
The alternator, itself, is a bolt on. For wiring info take a look at:
http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Electrical/charging.htm
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GOREO
Moparts Member
Posts: 142
From: Michigan
Registered: Aug 2001
posted 08-22-2002 10:25 PM
Just completed the conversion tonight on my 68 440 Dart, man what a difference...
Installed a 65 amp dual field alternator and the new style voltage regulator. Connected in the regulator plug and added a new wire for the 2nd field connection, old alternator was the 46 amp. Was well worth the time and effort
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69 1/2 Sixpack Bee
Moparts Member
Posts: 824
From: Ontario, California USofA
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 08-22-2002 11:56 PM
Can this mod be done with the "old" style regulator(but has new electronic guts) succesfully?
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Stroker
Moparts Member
Posts: 1088
From: rural central Illinois
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 08-23-2002 12:27 AM
I've got a newer alternator on the wagon, you just ground one of the field wires.
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6PacCuda
Moparts Member
Posts: 376
From: Wichita, Kansas, USA
Registered: Oct 2001
posted 08-23-2002 12:29 AM
For a 69 road runner could you just buy the 70 harness that has the dual field.
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GOREO
Moparts Member
Posts: 142
From: Michigan
Registered: Aug 2001
posted 08-23-2002 11:03 AM
I have not heard of the conversion using the old style case/new internals regulator. My guess is probably no. Trying it would probably wipe out the regulator at least.
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Some Car Guy
Moparts Member
Posts: 325
From: sometown in KY
Registered: Nov 2001
posted 08-23-2002 01:24 PM
I just run a wire from the 2nd field to a ground, works killer.
I would like to get a harness for one of the 69's I have w/ hookup for electronic regulator. Will a 70 B harness cover this?
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451mopar
Moparts Member
Posts: 489
From: Evansville, IN
Registered: Jun 2001
posted 08-23-2002 02:04 PM
You can just install a new alternator, or you can install one in conjunction with a new regulator.
Get an alternator for a '85 Diplomat (or equivalent). These are 87 amp and are a bolt in.
Then you can ground the second field terminal and use the existing regulator. If you haven't already, spend $10 on a new regulator. Most replacement regulators you get these days all have solid state guts (which is what you want).
Or you can install the later dual field regulator and wire it according to the instructions referred to in previous posts.
I installed one on my Charger using the first method.
You need to be careful with the extra amperage going through the wire hareness. Make sure your fusibile link is intact.
I have also installed relays on the headlamps to eliminate the routing of all that current through the bulkhead connector and switches. This alone does wonders for your lighting output.
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info provided by members listed above
And also make SURE the wires hooked onto the back of the amp gauge are in GOOD conidition and Tight.
Charging system problems.... Help elec.Unlawfl
Moparts
Posts: 6119
From: bloomfield hills, mi, usa
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 07-22-2002 08:07 AM
As I have mentioned in another thread, Saturday my charging system quit working at the dragstrip. We have ascertained that its not the alternator by putting a known good one on it and it made no difference. Last week I replaced the constant output voltage regulator because it went bad and was reading 16 volts while driving down the road. the new voltage regulator solved the problem. At the track saturday we tried jumping the voltage regulator and saw no change. Yesterday for grins, I put the old constant output regulator on. Same problem exists, the car is not charging. All connections seem to be good and the engine wiring harness is all new. Ground strap is secure, voltage regulator is grounded nicely to the firewall and I got on the creeper and inspected the wiring under the car. All looks undisturbed.
So, yesterday when I was done for the day, I took a peek under the dash. What I found was that the fuse block had come loose from the inside of the firewall and is just hanging. I didnt get a real good look at it, but aren't they two halves?? Could the fact that its hanging there have interrupted a ground??
Help!! I am electrically challenged to say the least...
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Fury_Us
Moparts Member
Posts: 1245
From: OKC, OK
Registered: Jan 2002
posted 07-22-2002 08:25 AM
I think my fuse box is all one piece and made of plastic, so I don't think you would have lost ground by it coming loose--but yours may be different. But having it hang around may have pulled something loose. Do you still have charging current going through your ammeter? If so, I'd look there if everything else looks good.
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Don1
Moparts Member
Posts: 4812
From: Valley City, ND. USA
Registered: Oct 2001
posted 07-22-2002 08:40 AM
Take a jumper wiree and jump across the 2 ammeter posts. If the ammeter is bad it won't charge. They had a habit of going out at times. This could have happened with the over charge of the costant regulater.
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Paul
Moparts Member
Posts: 2263
From: Port Huron, MI area
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 07-22-2002 08:47 AM
To build on Don's comments, loose ammeter connnections are often to blame for charging gremlins. Make sure your connections are tight and all the terminal are clean before declaring the gauge at fault.
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ZIPPY
Moparts Member
Posts: 5689
From: Detroit suburbs MI USA
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 07-22-2002 09:34 AM
Gary, Dean described the troubleshooting procedure he did at the track on the way to the Nomm show and I pointed out a couple other things that possibly could have been looked at, mostly in the way the regulator was being bypassed at the time. I can't go into every detail but this should be a start, at least.
You'll need a couple jumper wires, and possibly a test light.
From the back of the alternator case, jumper one field terminal to -, and the other to + (doesn't matter which one). Start it and observe the ammeter or voltmeter.
-if it charges, then either the regulator, the regulator ground or the regulator wiring (before or after the regulator) is at fault. Go to "1"
-if it doesn't charge, leave the two jumper wires in place and Proceed to "2"
1-check regulator ground by jumpering the case to battery -, or any known good ground. If it charges, there's the problem. If not, then you'll have to check everything you can find in the wiring harness that is connected to the regulator, start at the engine compartment and work your way towards the dash with your test light (key on).
One field wire should be negative, that is, to test it you'll have to put the test light clip on + to see anything with the light. Everything else feeding the regulator +, so clip the end of the light to - and probe the wires and connectors in the regulator circuit looking for a dead one, or bad connection somewhere.
2-Jumper the large wire between the alternator and battery (use a thick wire), and start it. Check charge at the battery with a voltmeter, should be 14+. If it charges, proceed to "A". If it does not charge, then proceed to "B"
A- Something in the circuit between battery and alternator is at fault, look at the wiring itself obviously, but also the bulkhead connector, ammeter, ignition switch, and everything else you can find that is in that cirbuit.
B- either the reman alternator is NFG (it happens), or the battery is incapable of taking a charge (borrow one from another car), or the battery to chassis ground isn't quite good enough (that can be checked with yet another jumper wire!).
Got a trunk mounted battery? If so, get some really long jumper wires!
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440 Jim
Moparts Member
Posts: 2707
From: Lexington Park Maryland
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 07-22-2002 10:07 AM
I am thinking like Don1. I don't think the fuse box being apart will effect anything, unless it is pulled. I have had mine pulled apart for troubleshooting and it caused no problems. Jumping the alt. output with a #10 or #8 wire to the battery (or the fender relay if you are using the factory circuit) should verify.
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Leigh
Moparts Member
Posts: 2054
From: Scratched Pan, MN
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 07-22-2002 10:10 AM
I'm with Don1. Open ammeter.
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GTSport69
Moparts Member
Posts: 4016
From: Holly,MI,U.S.A.
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 07-22-2002 10:26 AM
Does a ground circuit even goto the fuse box??
I thought it was for power distribution of + 12v dc voltage.
It shouldn't matter if a plastic fuse box is mounted or not.
The ammeter theory sounds valid, I'd check it out.
Meanwhile, I think ZIPPY has some good pointers
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DUSTER 340
Moparts Member
Posts: 907
From: MACOMB MICH.
Registered: Aug 2000
posted 07-22-2002 11:34 AM
Dean I am with you on this one, there are no ground circuits in the fuse box.
Zippy your tech trouble shooting is top notch.If I remember by basic auto electrical you do not want to se any more than 1/10 of a volt lost to any connection.So by back probing from the battery through the starter relay,bulkhead,ammeter,altenator ,etc.You should be able to determine the integrity of each circuit, by checking the voltage across each connection, progressivly away from the battery, getting lower each time, but not more than 1/10 of a volt lost at each connection.
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drbill
Moparts Member
Posts: 885
From: Detroit ,Mi,usa
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 07-23-2002 10:21 PM
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If you did your trick with the jumper wire from the Alt. to the starter relay and it did not charge, I would check to see if the blue field wire at the alt. has 12v. to it with the key on. The green field wire at the alt. is the one controlled by the voltage regulator, That wire is grounded by the regulator. If you have 12v. at the alt stud and 12v. at the blue field terminal then by grounding the green field terminal it should full field the alt. and charge to full capacity. Now as said earlier if the amp gauge is bad or any of the wiring leading to or from it is bad then it won't matter how many amps. the alt.is putting out it won't get to the battery. But by putting the extra wire to the starter relay you bypassed all of that wiring.
If you need a hand I'm willing to help you check it out. Do you have a service manual for your car?
IP: Logged
ccdave
Moparts Member
Posts: 580
From: Chicago burbs
Registered: Sep 2000
posted 07-23-2002 11:54 PM
-
Ok, I think I got it guys. I would love to try the bypass jumper trick on my 70 Challenger. Currently it takes around a mile with no stop lights to get the amp guage back in the center. So I should Take a #8 wire from the Alt. + post to the + post on the starter relay???? If this fixes my problem I will be a very happy camper!!!
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GTSport69
Moparts Member
Posts: 4016
From: Holly,MI,U.S.A.
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 07-24-2002 06:38 AM
Bob,
That sounds about right as a general rule since all wiring has some circuit resistance but is more critical when the current load is high for the given gauge size (so, yes).
This is what I saw.....
"From the back of the alternator case, jumper one field terminal to -, and the other to + (doesn't matter which one). Start it and observe the ammeter or voltmeter."
We didn't try this, we took both leads to ground thinking they were 2 fields in parallel and were switched to ground when driven. I did see 7.XX & 5.XX volts there with the key on (leads open) with a digital voltmeter. No harm done, since it sounds like, according to ZIPPY's info, both 12v and ground would otherwise be provided and we just took both leads low.
"probe the wires and connectors in the regulator circuit looking for a dead one, or bad connection somewhere."
"We checked the blue & green wires that lead to the alternator for continuity and a short to ground and found that all wiring was good.
"2-Jumper the large wire between the alternator and battery (use a thick wire), and start it. Check charge at the battery with a voltmeter, should be 14+."
Russ (74DUSTER360) added this circuit in. I later saw 12v from the harness lead to the alternator (disconnected) and felt it the harness was good and that circuit was redundant so we took it out.
Gary,
I can help you troubleshoot that if you like. BUT, I'd need to refer to the correct service manual for your car and then I could walk you through the whole process in laymans terms. There should be some form of a schematic in the manual to chase the electrons with.
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drbill
Moparts Member
Posts: 885
From: Detroit ,Mi,usa
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 07-24-2002 08:21 PM
Dean, Did you check to see if there was 12v. at the blue field wire with the key on? You mentioned checking the field wires for continuity and short to ground, So I was just wondering.
Here is how I have always checked Mopar charging systems. First by disconnecting the voltage regulator and grounding the green field wire. That will full field the Alt. If it charges the regulator is bad. If it still does not charge then check for proper voltage and continuity in the Alt. curcuits.
12v. at B+
12v. at blue field wire, with key on
And the green field wire is grounded by the regulator in verying amounts as needed.
And I've been looking at a 71 service manual wiring diagrams. It shows the alt. b+ wire going to a splice in the I/P wiring harness that splits to go thru the amp. meter and back out to the fuseable link at the starter relay. The other wires go to the fuse box, ignition switch, horn relay and head light switch. So I would say that if you get 12v. at the B+ of the alt. that the amp. guage is good.
I believe that this is the common curciut that Chrysler used for many years and that only the color of the wires changed along with the pin location in the bulk head connector.
That curciut runs from the ignition switch thru the bulkhead connector to a splice on the engine harness that also powers the ballast resistor and voltage regulator. Might be the splice is bad or the bulkhead connector, I would not think it's the ignition switch but you never know.
Glad to be able to help.
Bill
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Unlawfl
Moparts
Posts: 6119
From: bloomfield hills, mi, usa
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 07-25-2002 12:03 PM
Nice call Dr. Bill!! With key on, there is only .7v at the blue field wire! Think we may have isolated the problem... I hope.
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TAG
Moparts Member
Posts: 147
From: St. Clair Shores, MI
Registered: Mar 2002
posted 07-25-2002 07:48 PM
Bill
I'm going over to Gary's tomorrow before the party. We don't have the wiring diagrams for a 73. I have them for a 70. Do you think they will be close. What I mean do you think the pinout on the bulkhead connector are the same? Either way we'll follow it back from the alt. From reading this post it also could be the ammeter/voltmeter (stock one, not the aftermarket), correct?
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drbill
Moparts Member
Posts: 885
From: Detroit ,Mi,usa
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 07-25-2002 08:09 PM
I don't know if they are the same. But I do know that the blue field wire is the same and should not be that hard to trace as there is not that many wires running thru the bulkhead connector.
If you are getting 12v. to the B+ terminal (black wire at the Alt.) then the amp. gauge is O.K. and so is the fusable link along with the rest of that curcuit.
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TAG
Moparts Member
Posts: 147
From: St. Clair Shores, MI
Registered: Mar 2002
posted 07-25-2002 08:21 PM
Yeah he has B+ at the big terminal on the Alt. Just not on the blue field terminal circuit. We'll trace it back....should be easy to find. Thanks
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drbill
Moparts Member
Posts: 885
From: Detroit ,Mi,usa
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 07-25-2002 08:27 PM
Never say it will be easy. My old boss use to get mad at me when I would say that. Sometimes it would come back and bite me.
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440 Jim
Moparts Member
Posts: 2707
From: Lexington Park Maryland
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 07-25-2002 09:22 PM
One step closer to finding the problem. Glad to hear it. Those bulkhead connectors are notoriously a pain. While monitoring voltage at the blue wire and key on, wiggle/push the bulkhead connector.
Looking at my '73 Manual (Plymouth), that Dark Blue wire splices to a Dark Blue with a tracer. This wire goes to pin 23 on the bulkhead connector. This is at the far right, second from the bottom when viewed from the engine compartment side
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GTSport69
Moparts Member
Posts: 4016
From: Holly,MI,U.S.A.
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 07-25-2002 09:27 PM
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Yeah, I tried to respond last night but my keyboard was locked up. Dunno, what happened there.
At the track Saturday, we saw 12v at the large ring terminal and either 5v or 7v at the blue and green terminals. Can't remember which had the particular voltage level.
If the blue terminal is supposed to be battery voltage (12v) then something is acting as a load (voltage drop). It could be worn/pitted contacts in the ignition switch or a shorted out ballast resistor?
What about making up another ring terminal (connect it to the alt. post) with a small lead that would go to the same terminal that the blue wire went to and see if it charges then?
IP: Logged
71ChargerSE440CI
Moparts Member
Posts: 3822
From: Rancho Cucamonga, So. California, USA
Registered: May 2001
posted 07-25-2002 09:42 PM
I checked out this post, as I had had a similar problem in the past.
Tried lots of things, swapped parts, new alternator, a few different batteries...What solved it for me was bypassing the Stock Ammeter guage in the dash (wired the wires together) and added a Voltmeter to monitor eletrical instead.
All I can suggest, is that was what worked for me.
Good Luck with it. I KNOW how frustrating it can be, and generally speaking, I don't mind electrical work, yet this one had me running around in circles for quite a while (a few months.)
Also, yes the Stock Fuse Box is in two pieces. They clip together. Unless the wies got stressed, I doubt that would cause a problem.
If you crawl under your dash with a flashlight and take a close look at it, the two halves have wire harnesses running from the fixed half attached to the firewall and the loose half that clips with locating posts into the fixed half.
Usually those connections are pretty secure and are not easy to get apart even when you would like them to be.
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Unlawfl
Moparts
Posts: 6119
From: bloomfield hills, mi, usa
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 07-28-2002 09:03 PM
Thanks to all of your suggestions and an hour of "TAG's" time, I got my electrical problem (no charging) fixed.
DrBill had suggested to check the blue field wire at the alternator for 12 volts with the key on. Nope, only .7 volts. So I figured for sure the problem was isolated in that wire somewhere. On Friday before the party, TAG came out and we started tracing it down. That blue wire goes to the voltage regulator and from there, splices into a blue/white wire and goes to the junction block. The way the manufacturer of this wiring harness does this splice would absolutely sicken you. I just bought this brand new harness at the WPC in January for $90!!! No crimp, no soder, nuthin.. Just a cleaned off portion of the blue wire and a crimped on piece of metal on the blue/white wire that the blue wire was suppossed to ride in. Wrap it up with tape and call it good. B.S.!! These jokers are gonna get an earfull next year!! To cut corners on a wiring harness and then wrap it all up in black tape is a crime. Anyway, I now have a charging system again and I put a new reluctor and pick-up in my distributor. All looks real good with that now too. Now we need a nicely prepped track and a 75 degree day!!
Thanks to everyone for walking me through the problem, TAG for the help since I am electrically challenged, and thanks to 451Jim for the copy of the wiring diagram!!
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does it matter which field the wires are connected to on alternator?
65rbdodge
Moparts Member
Posts: 1057
From: moscow pa. u.s.a.
Registered: Apr 2001
posted 05-26-2002 01:27 PM
i am trying to solve my overcharging problem. i`ve swapped in a different alternator and voltage regulator and it didn`t make any difference. what would happen if i swapped the field wires? any other suggestions? i converted from single to dual field.
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plumebody
Moparts Member
Posts: 117
From: rochester ny
Registered: Mar 2002
posted 05-26-2002 01:30 PM
i just did my rewire on my challenger and it did not matter. Although going from a single to a duel feed i'm not sure as mine was already a duel feed.
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65rbdodge
Moparts Member
Posts: 1057
From: moscow pa. u.s.a.
Registered: Apr 2001
posted 05-26-2002
i swapped them and it doesn`t make a difference, still over charging.
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kingjr
Moparts Member
Posts: 2342
From: CT
Registered: Aug 2001
posted 05-26-2002 02:02 PM
Get an underdrive pulley if you don't already have one, that should help.
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65rbdodge
Moparts Member
Posts: 1057
From: moscow pa. u.s.a.
Registered: Apr 2001
posted 05-26-2002 02:04 PM
yup its got underdrives.
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cam440
Moparts Member
Posts: 1525
From: Sacramento,CA
Registered: May 2000
posted 05-26-2002 02:26 PM
65, I do not know about your car, but usually if you are overcharging, the problem lies in the wires. One of your field wires(most likely the green wire) is probably shorted to ground, this will full field the alternator and it will charge anywhere from 16v-18v. You can try to temporarily rewire the alternator without using the stock harness...if the problem goes away, then you need to trace the bad wire (shorted to ground) and obviously fix it. Just my $0.02 (see diagram below)
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65rbdodge
Moparts Member
Posts: 1057
From: moscow pa. u.s.a.
Registered: Apr 2001
posted 05-26-2002 03:19 PM
my volt meter crapped out on me so i don`t know exactly how many volts it is. the gauge in the car is a 3/4, a little less at idle. i`ll recheck the wireing tomorrow. i will be suprised if i find any problems, i triple checked the wires before i wrapped them all. but that where it has to be i`ve eliminated everything else.
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Walter
Moparts Member
Posts: 330
From: Knoxville TN
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 05-26-2002 03:37 PM
Should be running 13.7 volts. Battery voltage charged should be about 12.4 or so.
wp
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maxwedge1
Moparts Member
Posts: 388
From: ..PA
Registered: Feb 2000
posted 05-26-2002 03:57 PM
ground that v-reg housing Good.
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studellac
unregistered posted 05-26-2002 04:43 PM
I think you'll find Maxwedge1 is right. In the past I've had to run a ground wire between the voltage regulator and the engine block or any other area that's a good ground.
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5thAve
Moparts Member
Posts: 3748
From:
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 05-26-2002 04:53 PM
I'd get or borrow a real volt meter and use that before trusting the guage. The alternator output is usually around 14.5 at the battery.
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DAVE
Moparts Member
Posts: 916
From: FT LAUD, FL
Registered: Jun 2001
posted 05-26-2002 05:34 PM
I converted to 60 amp dual field on my 66 Coronet years ago and was told to ground one field so I did. One field goes to the regultaor and the other goes to ground. It works fine. Using the old style regulator with the newer electronic internals.
The lights get a little bright flutter sometimes but voltage never exceeds 13.6
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Alternator bracket and pulleys for 440
fastnserious
New Member
Posts: 29
From: America
Registered: Nov 2002
posted 11-14-2002 10:45 PM
Could I use a B alternator bracket and pulleys?
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direct_subjection
Moparts Member
Posts: 3856
From: Piscataway, NJ, USA, Earth - 3rd one from the sun
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 11-14-2002 11:33 PM
Pulleys yes - bracket no. The 440 is taller so the bolt hole into the head would not line up.
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Montclaire
Moparts Member
Posts: 265
From:
Registered: Oct 2002
posted 11-14-2002 11:38 PM
Hello. Swapping brackets and pullies is not a fun or amusing thing to do. It can drive you crazy. You can get brackets from Year One, Hoffman's Winner's Circle, and March Performance. There is also another man reproducing all the pullies. I believe it is Bouscellon Performance? Spelling may be off.
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383-man
Moparts Member
Posts: 5407
From: Balt. Md. USA
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 11-14-2002 11:39 PM
You cant really see it in this pick but my stock alt bracket has 2 holes in it as I use the lower one on my 383 low block but the upper one is used on the 440 raised block. This is the bracket for the alt top bolt the long one. So I believe this stock bracket will work wiht either one. Ron
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northcoastmopar
Moparts Member
Posts: 999
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Registered: May 2001
posted 11-14-2002 11:40 PM
hmm... I always thought the B and RB bracket was the same but there is a difference between a/c and non a/c.
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Montclaire
Moparts Member
Posts: 265
From:
Registered: Oct 2002
posted 11-15-2002 12:50 AM
There were a lot of difference between brackets and pullies over the years. I think AC components alone switched four or more times, with all sets being different.
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mopar mike
Moparts Member
Posts: 728
From: Hendersonville, TN 37075
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-15-2002 09:24 AM
383-man is right . The alt bracket has 2 holes in the top. one for use with the B- 383 block and one with the RB-440 block. Pullys are all the same i.e. non air vrs. air are different but non-air 440 and non air 383 are the same.
I just did a 383 to 440 swap and I used all the same brackets and pullys.
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440 Jim
Moparts Member
Posts: 2711
From: Lexington Park Maryland
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 11-15-2002 09:31 AM
As Montclare pointed out, there were differences through the years. The early non-AC bracket (pre '70?) is like 383-man said, two holes so it will fit either engine. You need to be more specific.
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cowboy57
Moparts Member
Posts: 2131
From: Joliet IL Home of RT66 Dragstrip&Chicagoland Speedway
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-15-2002 09:41 AM
For non ac apps in a 383-440 there are
2 main set ups.
Depends on which water pump housing you use as they have different mounting bosses on them.
1962-1966 solid triangular bracket
1967-197? triangular bracket with round hole.
if you look at the 2 different types of
brackets they have 2 top mounting holes
on the corner ear that bolts to the WPH.
Hoffmans Winner Circle only sells 2
different kits for these years,non ac.
as far as non ac pullies,
there are 2 std sets of 2 pullies
for ps and ms in the years of
1962-1968.
the set for ps uses a 2 groove crank pulley
that has both grooves the same outside diameter.
in 1969-1970 the set used a crank pulley
that had 2 grooves also but the inner is
smaller in diameter that the outer.
71-up used a different bolt pattern on the spread of the bolts on the harmonic balancer.
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