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440 6-pack STREET PERFORMANCE ...CARB & TIMING TIPS

billyc

..hi guys ...i'm re-posting these set-ups because lottsa important info that everyone is E mailing me for has since been deleted due to age , although some are in the archives....member' , i'm NOT a technician/mechanic , just a dedicated moparite , with lottsa R&D , trial and error , and 30 yrs of background in racing super/stock mopars , (i'm not Bucky Hess, SS/AA) buying & selling performance parts , and in the last 15 yrs playing with them and restoring them for street usage ...simply for the pure driving excitement that they offer......NOTE, these are offered as just my opinions , and as helpful hints and tuning tips , just as chrysler did years ago when you could talk to an engineer , or dick maxwell ,or mccandless, or baumann , the carb man , or one of the factory racers', or just call them and order a ' body-in-white ' for racing ....yes you could do that , and what they would tell you did WORK...and worked in the real world of street driving ; ahhhhh, to have those ole days back again , Lolololl.........anyway , here goes , and u will note this was a response to a problem hemiallen was having ;


hi hemi allen and ALL the 440, and 6-pack guys ......
....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhya gotta luv these 6pack carbs ,,,,,,hemiallen ,
please look up my prior posts that i sent you , and follow the step by step set-up....briefly once again;

STREET PERFORMANCE CARB SETUP FOR 6-PACKS
TIMING SETUP FOR ALL 440'S,WEDGES, AND
STREET HEMI'S
enhanced version 7-15-2001, even more info

NOTE: You must have a good running , good compression motor , and it must run at reasonably cool temp's in the heat of summer(160-190maxdegs,i would say)otherwise you will negate a lot of these settings ,
especially the boosted spark timing , and maybe not be able to use any of them at all...u will need good gas octane as well / or octane booster..your trial and error is the final determining factor...there are no guarantee's here , but no fiction either

6 PACK CARBS HOLLEY
1970-71 DODGE PLYM 440 MOTOR
R 4144 CENTER R 4365 F&R
or equivalent 2300 series 2-bbl's

F and R carbs; remove the carbs DO A NORMAL RE-BUILD , make sure u use holley parts , and specifically chk the needle and seats for perfect working order , and/or then chk to make sure the base to main body screws on the bottom are tight , and that the gasket is not ripped or torn ; chk for flushness , and that nothing is warped ,; do the same where the float bowl attaches and screws to the main body ; blow everything out , CLEAN , WITH CARBURETOR CLEANER , RE-clean again ...and blow out w/ COMPRESSED AIR ; MAKE SURE THAT THE IDLE AIR PASSAGES ARE CLEAN AND OPEN , & blow clean with air again (2 lil holes on both sides of the main body , inside the venturi on the top looking down at the main body , where the lil' clusters are ) IMPORTANT:turn-in the idle screws all the way seated; back out 1/8 to 1/4 turn ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM, maybe in your case only 1/8th of a turn OR in a dire instance, and only if you know what you are doing , open up the lil' holes in the throttle blades , by .005 maximum ...either or both of the above settings will allow the ctr carb adj. screws to be much more responsive to idle settings ( turning out is richer - in is leaner) ; seal up w wht or blk dumb-dumb, push that stuff on top of , and around , the screw heads , so as not to leak vacuum through the threads(the threads could be worn, and usually are )
buy urself the holley quick change vacuum secondary pod changeover kits , once all the above is done , and YOU know nothing , as in absolutely nothing , no leaks no blockages ,
is wrong with the outter carbs ....then u can readily remove the springs WITHOUT FRIGGING AROUND WITH THE CARBS ; DONT rip the lil' rubber diaphragms , be careful screwing down the covers ....keep changing the springs , until the transistion to the 6-bbl has no bog...may be time consuming , and tedious , but u need to do that...different color springs have diifferent opening rates......follow the instructions , they'll tell you which spring is which ......go slowly and take ur time ....these holleys are a snap to work on , once they are set-up right , all they will need is some tweaking , and then u are done ....they are identical to the back 1/2 of a holley vac seconday 4-bbl , so eveything that is written here is also applicable to a holley vac secondary 4-bbl. too ....very , very simple to some , difficult to others ; get ur mindset going so as to get it done right , and YOU WILL SUCCEED...get a holley carb tips book , or an old MP tuning book (maybe early 90's , or maybe even the newer ones have that info too !!), as they both tell all about the 6-pack carbs , and their setup in the rear of the book ...work on them , and u'll get the picture after a while ...they are NOT hard at all
NEXT , THEN .....u probably already installed the metering plates on the F and R carbs , from that ole track trick kit u have from MP, and i have one too !!!!...thats ok , and is a good thing OR
of u didnt thats ok too , use the old metering plates.....
THEN , ...make sure u have nice cold , new fresh plugs in the car...and........
new or newer , MP cap and rotor , or better yet , Echlin or Accel , tan bakelite cap and rotor...available at speed shops , and the echlin are at NAPA stores ...DO USE the tan accel bakelite caps and rotors , they are the best; then set-up as follows , w/ MP elec
ignition , set at .040 gap, or MSD ignition , set at .045-050 gap for the street .....always plug for coldness , or put in the coldest plug you can until the mtr fouls them out , and then go one step hotter ; if they dont foul out , BINGO , ya got the right one's ......... like ngk's (chk the plug number at martel racing.com )or autolite #74 or #84's ; watch ur fresh plug readings closely after 100, 200
miles of driving , and watch for pinging.....whtish plugs are LEAN , BLKISH plugs mean RICH...ideally they should be chocolate brn.....
ALWAYS , use new ignition wires whenever possible , 8-9mm , or just MP wires work just fine ; i am using blk accel 9mm wires in my car (blk for the mopar car shows )
ALWAYS , use MP coils , or MSD Blaster coils , but a stock coil is ok too, but not as good performance wise ......when choosing a coil in combination with MP ignition boxes , use the CORRECT BALLAST RESiSTOR , not just what u wanna use ....the coil+box combo require specific ballasts , so follow the guide , or call mp tech line , or get a mp tuning book , it will tell all ...and there IS A DIFFERENCE

NOTE: after all of the above , if u ping badly , or if the plugs are whtish , with the track metering plates or the stock plates , that means your mtr is octane sensitive and/or not rich enough in the carburetors, THEN U MUST buy the jetted metering plates from quick-fuel technology ,or make up your own , so as to modify the jetting richer, ...its easier, than going out and buying separate oriface plates for each opening size change that u may do , that would be , cost prohibitive ; the jetting plates is the hot set-up, and the only way to go .. AND THATS A STORY FOR ANOTHER DAY .........NOTE........
the MP ole tuning books have the trick/performance for street usage ,
metering plate sizes , listed in thousanths of an inch , ..these are the sizes that they tested , and R and D'ed in their performance tests , on 6-pack rr's and challengers in the 70's and 80's , and that have been proven to work in their street & drag tests ; you can then convert those oriface opening sizes to the current holley jet size # numbers , ......EZ to do , just get a holley catalog , go to the jet section , and cross over an oriface size to a jet number , ie, .080 size = a #79 holley jet , or whatever ...then, install those appropriate jets in the new quick-fuel technolgy metering plates for your F and R carbs , and use them as a baseline .....i do have a stage one and an even richer stage two staggered jetting size chart , for those that may want it ...THEY DO WORK AND WORK WELL, DIFFERENCE BEING , GAS BACK THEN WAS MUCH DIFFERENT THAN GASOLINE IS NOW , especially in the northeast , SO YOU MAY HAVE TO GO EVEN RICHER YET for optimum performance ....
remember ...any time u add or do performance enhancements , ie, larger 2 1/2'' exhaust , headers , better ignition , larger cam , etc, etc , you should consider richening up ur 4-bbl , or 6-pack carbs ...u may even probably get better gas mileage because you made it more efficient , and gave it more power

IMPORTANT
if u suspect , seem to have , OR DO HAVE ANY TYPE OF CARB OR MTR PROBLEM , whtish plugs , leaness , or pinging , detonation
u need to address that situation right away , and dont continually drive the car ; YOU AT THAT POINT HAVE 2 CHOICES ......stop any performance enhancements , revert everything back to stock , OR diagnose by trial and error to locate the problem and/or take the jetting to another level with the quick-fuel metering plates , or make your own plates ...YOU CANT AND SHOULD NOT CONTINUALLY DRIVE A PINGING 440 OR MOPAR ENGINE , or any engine for that matter , AS U MAY , AND PROBABLY WILL CAUSE INTERNAL
ENGINE DAMAGE

next , a hvy squirt or rich load of gas from f and r carbs is normal

CTR CARB...put in a 5.5 or a 6.5 pwr valve ; u dont need a 3.5, it may be tooooo long a transistion time before the carb gets enrichened , and goes into the power stage ;
go up on the jet from the factory #62-63 , to a #66-#67-#68 or even a #69 or #70...i'm using a number 66 in my car , but may go to a 68
OFF THE LINE PERFORMANCE ON 440'S, w auto trans. , may require a change from a factory #31 squirter , to a #35 , not any bigger for a street motor is needed ....u'll see a difference
idle air bleeds in the metering blocks , and in the main body are fine , dont make any bigger, unless u have a big , big cam ,,,i think they are .037 stock , which are fine in most usages; quick fuel tech plates for the F and R carbs have , i think , removable or adjustable air bleeds if u need to use them ...DO chk for warpage , and broken gaskets as well , clean w gumout or carb cleaner , and blow out everything w compressed air; do the same thing to the main metering block in the ctr carb , where the powr valve screws into ...get that vacuum up to 12-14'' or higher ...methodically and slowly , go back and forth , and back and forth , on those adjustment screws until u get the highest reading on each screw on a vacuum gauge ; do it over and over , and u'll get the knack of it, i did ; make sure u have the lil' round cork gaskets threaded onto the idle screws , or an equivalent o ring , real real small...when screwing in and out , the gasket or o ring will prevent vacuum from escaping ; in addition to that , i dumb -dumb my screw head to the float bowl
, once the setting is achieved , so as to prevent any vacuum leaks thru the threads , and believe me , they do leak vacuum
.....(i know , that motor gets hot), but keep adjusting until you get that sweet setting of hi vacuum , and
then turn the screw in by 1/4 turn ....i have almost the same cam as you , and i'm getting almost 14-16''in neutral , and 11-13'' in drive ; a lil' jumping on the vacuum gauge is ok, i get the same jumping , if it were to vary dramatically , then i would say that you have a problem, but 1/2 to 1''to 1 1/2'' i would say is ok , for a loopy cam .....
A LITTLE TRICK; if you want to get the vacuum higher , AND get max power from the 383-426W or hemi, and 440 motor on the street ..........
make sure ur timing is set properly , and you must have hi enough octane to stop pinging and/or use blk cans of 104+ octane booster , the red can sux, but that is optional , the important thing is the timing setting ....as follows , otherwise u wont get that higher vacuum reading , and may get less performance ; the initial timing IS RELATIVE to the vacuum reading on any motor ...... look at my prior posts for setting up a MP distr, and / or limit the total advance for the street to 36-38 degs , depending on your octane out in the west coast ...any MP elec distr. , must BE LIMITED, and modded to stop at 36-38degs , it wont do it on its own ; MP distr's have approx 25 added degs of crankshaft advance built in as a centrifugal advance , and when u combine that to an initial of say.., 20...u'll have 20 initial + 25 built in , = equaling 45 degs total , which is way toooo much , and thats why u MUST mod and limit the total adavance ; there is no way around that ....set the initial at 16-20 degs , depending on where u want it , but when u do that , member' , u must limit and stop the total at the above setting , and i cannot express enough upon everyone the importantcy of that one point; there are magazine articles on how to do this , or take it to a distr. shop and have them put it on a distr. machine and set it up , or do it urself , as per one of my prior posts(very long & am not gonna post it here again) OR buy a MSD timing controller/computer , like i did ........but very expensive
....at 16-20 degs initial , YOU should get somewhere between 12-14'' or more even ,
of vacuum at idle , in neutral, @ 800-950rpm's ...i do , and you should too.....just peak out , and re-peak those 2 ctr carb idle screws .......mine is set initial at 18degs, and the total stops at 37 degs .....u'll have lottsa bottom end , and the vacuum secondary tranistion will knock ur sox off when they open..... i know mine does ; just watch for pinging ...get some good gas , real good gas , or add some blk cans of 104+, or even some Xylene , rocket fuel, as its called , if you dare , Lololololol, we're playing with that too now (do a search , and chk for prior posts on xylene)....with the above carb setups , and metering plate mod's , and timing adjustments , i picked up 4-5mpg on my 6-pack challeneger
......happy moparing & good luck..........

------------------
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T , FE5 red exterior, wht vinyl roof & wht side stripes , built at dodge LA Calif plant 9/69 , factory 'Ucode' 4-bbl a/c car , now 440 6-pack w/ factory-air (the way it should have been), 727 , all the 6-pack goodies , incl. 28-3200 hi stall converter, 3.55 sure grip...BluePrinted stock 9.5-1 440, former Muscle Car Review magazine car ; chassis , drivetrain & interior restified and restored to its mopar originality
( still ongoing , as always ! ! ! )...geeez, i member' these cars when i was a kid , Lolol

OOOPS SORRY , forgot to mention , a good performance boost is the tork-converter; if ya got a performance cam , or just want some more giddy-up and go power , and ur tranny is in real good shape or new , and shifts good and quick ...add one or even two back-to-back, trans. coolers or the equivalent , and a deep mopar pan , and a 3000rpm stall converter on a 383 or 440 ....IT'LL cool down the fluid dramatically, plus the converter WILL WAKE THE MOTOR RIGHT UP , AND GIVE U NECK SNAPPING off the line ACCELERATION on the street ....i use 2 stacked B&M coolers hidden in the drvrs wheel well, up high, mntd behind the headlite bckt, 5/16''metal&rubber lines, & radiator by-pass, and an 11'' 28-3200 6-pack/street hemi converter; but will be changing to the same stall by either B&M , or Hughes

----- UPDATED AS OF 8 – 26 – 2001 -----
no size changes , just some testing updates
6 PACK CARBS FOR 440's.....METERING
PLATE MOD'S

OK , HERE'S THE METERING PLATE
STORY & ALL THE INFO
old chry track/trick plates , designed
by chry, built by holley , as follows ,
F&R carbs , for Holley R4365 (NEW #’s
for 69+70 carbs)
or older Holley 2300 series 2-bbl
equivalents
Originally marked as MP kit # 4007671
(kit originally had the plates for the 71’carbs, and plates for the 69+70’carbs, gaskets for both sets of year carbs, 2 vacuum diaphragms for the secondaries, and a set of diff rate springs)

NOTE’ TECHNICAL INFO IS THE SAME ON THE 69-70-71 YR. CARBS , ALTHOUGH THE PARTS & GASKETS ARE DIFFERENT AS NOTED BELOW
for 69-70-71 440 6-pack motors
metering plate orifice opening sizes
on the ole trick/track plates

choke side throttle side

front carb
#34plate .089 .089
rear carb
#35plate .086 .093
THESE ARE THE 'HOT' ORIFICE SIZE OPENINGS THAT CHRY & HOLLEY SOLD IN THEIR TRICK KITS , JUST CHANGE EM' OVER TO JET NUMBERS , AND PUT EM' IN YOUR QUICK FUEL
TECHNOLOGIES NEW STYLE JETTED METERING PLATES , OR YOUR HOME STYLE plates
The track plates or trick plates , that came in the chry/holley trick kits #4007671 are in fact already the same as the above sizes shown ....they are no longer made , supposedly, in kit form , but may be available separately , numbers shown below …………………..and also at some point in time , in the late 70's and 80's, Holley went to these orifice size openings in their standard production runs of REPLACEMENT F & R carbs ,and i researched this as fact by opening up a bunch of carbs over the years ,and found these hot plates in them, (CALLED THE #34 and the #35 plates) yet cant confirm this with holley or chry ;the good plates, should have on the face , a raised marking on each as follows;
FRT CARB BOLDLY MARKED 34 on the face
of the metering plate
Holley # 34R-6153-34 69-70
carbs only,or R-4365

REAR CARB BOLDLY MARKED 35 on the face of
the metering plate
Holley # 34R-6153-35 69-70
carbs only, or R-4365
NOTE THESE PLATES ARE FOR 69-70 CARBS ONLY , Holley #R-4365 carbs, OR THE EXACT MATCH.

CONFIRM YOUR CARB PART NUMBER BEFORE ORDERING PLATES (71’series carbs require different style plates & gaskets)
...these will in fact be the HOT-SETUP in plates .....these are obviously in orifice opening hole sizes , rather than jets sizes
or numbers ; OE stock plates on both carbs from the factory were #35 plates, yes , that’s correct !!!, both are #35………….
YOU CAN IF YOU CHOOSE, cross over whatever plates numbers u already have (rather than chasing down these trick plates, which are impossible to find) just by calling holley , or looking in an older holley catalog (and you may be able to order the plates alone , w/o the kit) it will show you by plate number what the orifice opening size is on the choke/diaphrm side and the throttle side as well ...very EZ to do ... but…………………………there are the sizes anyway , and the Holley part#’s if needed ...... if you wanna use the new jetted plates with the above sizes, as a prelim to the stage 1 and stage 2 transitions , you would need to convert , change over , the sizes shown in thousandths , to jet numbers from the holley catalog......………………………..
Now , here is what I call my Stage 1 jetting , and Stage 2 jetting tips for 440 6 pack motors (all years), which would apply to all motors w up to approx 10.8-1 comp ratio; i followed the above chrysler / MP specs , and staggering , exactly as shown above , .......PLUS.....added more richness by a 4-5% size increase , using jets on stage 1 , and then also added more richness , another 4-5% on stage 2 ...and this is for the quick fuel technology metering plates , a jetted metering plate , or for hme designed jetted plates
CTR , F AND R carbs 440 6-pack
1969-1970
HOLLEY R4365 OR EQUIV OUTTER CARBS
HOLLEY R4144 OR EQUIV CTR CARB
1971 6-pack carbs use different carb numbers, because of float bowl parts & gasket differences; they still are Holley 2300 series carbs , & all the tech info herein still is applicable
Holley 2300 SERIES 2-bbls jetting matches almost identical the MP track/street metering plates + 4-5% increase added , that chrysler-MP and/or Holley no longer makes from the late 80's , Early 90's ...these jetting tips are staggered just like the originals were from chry, and are for exh manifold cars , no headers , no heat block-off on the intake aircleaner on and not removed ...although they probably CAN be used on most all cars even w/ or without headers as a baseline .
(THE ABOVE are the original metering plates, in their original orifice opening sizes as shown for reference; the orifice size is the same regardless of whether it’s a 69-70-or 71 carb, although some of the interior float bowl pieces, gaskets, and metering plates on a 71’ are different
than on the earlier 69+70 carbs; consult before you buy

STAGE 1
ADDED 4-5% richness from trick plate
Sizes as shown above

CHOKE SIDE THROTTLE SIDE

FRONT CARB

.093 .093
or #80 jet or #80 jet

REAR CARB
.091 .099 or#79 jet or #84 jet

CTR CARB
R4144 holley
WENT FROM #62 OR 63 JET, to #66JET , .066
Original metering body # 34R-6020A or
#1034-6020 OE Stock jet size was #62 in
calif and #63 in the rest of the USA

STAGE 2 JETTING
another 4-5 % added to the above stage 1
sizes


CHOKE SIDE THROTTLE SIDE

FRONT CARB
.099 .099
or #84 jet or #84 jet

REAR CARB
.094 .101 or #83 jet or #86 jet


CTR CARB
WENT FROM #66 ABOVE in stage 1, TO ,
#67JET , .067
Tech info same as above, stage 1 ctr carb


...Holley says the jetting was staggered due to intake manifold inconsistantcies that chrysler found on dynoing ,and during drag tests , and corrected by jet staggering ...supposedly, but who
knows for sure !!!!…but the staggering does work well…….have been using the staggering for over 4 yrs now
i have personally used , in fact , the original trick metering plates , which worked good , no problems ; then , the initial trick plate sizes converted over to jets , & put into a jetting metering plate , which also worked good , as obviously they
were the same sizes as the trick plate; and lastly, the stage 1 jetted plate which worked better yet....and finally the stage
2 jetting plate which works to date the best for the street……..i am also using cold NGK SPARK PLUGS, AS FOLLOWS; STOCK #2746 R5670-6……..plugs are reading perfectly as of 8-26-2001 , GAPPED AT .045 W/MSD 6T, AND at .040 WHEN USING CHRY ORANGE OR CHROME BOXES………………………………..in the dead 95-98deg heat i might add
...all the above have been r&d'ed by me , and work fine ...no problems whatsoever for street perf.,in idle characteristics ,
performance , or over richness……..and as of this date 8/26/2001, I HAVE FOUND THE MSD
IS FAR SUPERIOR TO THE CHRY / MP BOXES UNDER 3000 RPM’S WHEN IT FIRES THE PLUGS W/ A DOUBLE PULSE UNTIL 3000RPM’S, then it reverts back to a single pulse ignition system
(the MSD is excellent for rich loads
such as the stage 1 & stage 2 jetting,
preventing the plugs from even wanting
to foul at low or idle rpm… I suspect
the chry/MP boxes would not fire the
load of gas above , but I don’t know
that for fact)

ACTUAL TESTING & DRIVING

I AM PRESENTLY USING AS OF, AND SINCE 7/2001 ,STAGE 2 JETTING , BECAUSE OF POOR PUMP OCTANE IN THE NORTHEAST , AND
AM TRYING TO OFFSET OCTANE SENSITIVITY IN THE MOTOR BY RICHENING THE CARBS , THERBY GAINING MORE POWER , WITHOUT ANY PINGING , AND GAINING THIS POWER W/O GOING TO OCTANE BOOSTER , ON A ROUTINE BASIS ; …………………..AND IT WORKS ……EVEN IN THE HEAT ........
AS OF 8/25-2001, spark plug readings on my blueprinted stock 440 mtr, approx 10k miles since done ,.030 overbore ,9.8-1 final COMP ratio, basically stock heads w Mp #993 CAM 280deg duration , and 3.55 sure-grip ,a set-up/ blueprinted MP distr w/ MSD 6T , running 38deg’s total , & 20deg’s initial on the street…W/O OCTANE BOOSTER !!!
PLUGS ARE READING A NICE CHOCOLATE BROWN , LIKE NESTLE'S QUIK WHICH IS WHAT THEY SHOULD BE ....W/ BLK CANS 104+ OCTANE BOOSTER, OR RACE FUEL , THIS COMBO SHOULD BE AN EVEN BETTER PERFORMER , ESPECIALLY WITH HEADERS , AND LARGER EXHAUST WHICH I DO HAVE , 2 ½ INCH , BUT NO HEADERS
I'LL BE WATCHING PLUG READINGS , AND ANY FOULING PROBLEMS, WHILE USING THE COLD NGK PLUGS WHICH SEEM TO BE THE BEST
PLUGS TO DATE THAT I HAVE USED FOR THE 440 MTR. AGAIN , the ngk plug number is stock#2746 R5670-6
I HAVE GAINED WHAT SEEMS TO BE MORE POWER ON 93 OCTANE PUMP GAS ALONE( MOBIL PREM)ESPECIALLY IN MID-RANGE ,2000-4000RPM'S ....no pinging at all .........I DONT USE SUNOCO ANYMORE BECAUSE OF HI OXYGENATION FORMULAS AROUND HERE.......SO FAR, I’M EXPERIENCING NO POWER
LOSS, NO PLUG FOULING , AND AN INCREASE IN GAS MILEAGE OF FROM 4-6 MPG W/ STAGE 2 JETTING ....AM STILL
R & Ding THIS COMBO ....BUT ITS WORKING WELL ON THE STREET , REAL WELL..was having lifter / cylinder pressure problems causing pinging at times when at 170-180 degs of water temp, which IS NOW CORRECTED , when i removed the rhoades lifters and installed 16 MP hi-perf hydraulic lifters ,and 16 new melling pushrods, re-torked the rocker arms , non-adj MP HD stamped rockers for now anyway, and re-torked the head gaskets …………….. REAL SOON , am going to a 4 row or large tube 3 row radiator , for even more cooling (W/the mopar pentastar stamped upper&lower tanks) when thats done , i'll be doing more testing , and thrashing .......MEMBER', the cooler the motor runs the denser the gas mixture, and the more power the mtr will make , and the less chance u'll have at pinging the motor, especially at higher than stock timing settings …
ALSO ..the above jet settings will effectively get even richer yet when the weather starts cooling down , and the air becomes cooler outside . AND , Cooler air is coming

 

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