Moparts Tech Archive
Ladderbar ?'sadvice on ladderbar tuning
I need a little advice on tunning a set of ladder bars, Moving front point up or down, softer shock settings or harder etc etc what does what to the launch of the car? The car is 60' in the 1.8-1.7 sec range with wheel spin past the 60'. Best et after less then 10 passes is a 8.1 1/8th with a 88mph. I leave the line on the footbrake at 2500 rpm.
Well you're to far away for me to drop by!!! LOL
Set the driver side bar at 0-1 degree up on the lower bar, The pinion angle at 1-3 degrees nose down, and 1/2 a hole preload on the pass side bar.
I'd start there with those settings and put the car on 4 corner scales if you have access to them and fine tune the corner weights from there.
Also what tires,shocks,trans, convertor, wieght of car, motor etc are you using? All this info will help us to give a better answer.
69 dart, 3450lbs, 440, 28x12.5 M/T street slicks, Competition engineering shocks rear, and cheap monroe shocks front. Converter is a 3000 stall but flashes to 3800-4000. Out back in the 8 3/4 are 4.88 gears. Engine was in a different car before, without better heads and had a best 60' of 1.5 on leafsprings. what kind of tinkering around with the front mounting point make, pinion angle, what kind of shock settings will make the tire hit harder. Dont know much about ladder bar suspensions and how things will affect what. You know of any good books or websites that can explain some of this stuff?
Moving the bar up will give a quicker, harder hit. You may need a good double adjustable shock to help control the speed of the hit. I would say ol' Carl is pretty close, only thing is the pre load deal, I don't run any, some cars need some. If it goes straight, then leave it alone, and try a level (at race ride height and weight)ladder bar height, and a fairly soft bump, and a tight jounce. I'm guessing you will be close. Welcome to "what will my car need for ladder bar settings" club. You will find that what others run may not even be close for your car
Interesting conversation here . I was in this boat once , solved the spin problem by tightening both front and rear shocks. now need to work on poor 60 ft times. New convertor is next to try.
Yeah the car leaves the line nice and straight, no fighting it to keep it straight. Had problems doing a good burnout last week and had the same 60' as with a good burnout, so I guess that its all in how the ladders are set up. Just got a few books today, Door Slammers the chassis book, and Bracket. I would recomend the Door Slammers book, it looks very detailed info. I can see that alot of it is going to be trial and error, thanks for having me in the club hehehe Anybody else have any info on what works for them?
info provided by members listed above
Ladder bar questions
I have ordered all the parts to backhalf my car, but didn't get the ladder bars yet. How long of ladders should I use? There are 32", 33", and 36" Its for a 70 rr, s&w's catalog says longer for bigger cars, is this really necessary? I know of people using 32" on b-bodies and say either are fine. Should I get a double adjustable ladder bar? Chromoly, teflon, or standard ends?
Yes longer would be better (for a b-body) and you'll thank yourself at the track if you get the double adj. ones. As far as what ends....you need to decide what the car is going to be used for. A lot of street action you might want to go with the teflon or rubber ones. Limited street but lots of track time I would go with the solid rear with the spherical front. I have used solid and sph. with grease zert added, worked great.
One of the alston chassis outfits offered a special washer/rubber boot type setup to protect the rodends and keep the dirt out. I don't know much about this, but thought i would toss it out there. It would seem that if a guy could protect the race type rod ends from road dirt, they might be a good bet for street strip? Any chassis experts care to coment on this idea?
While we are on this thread, what does everyone think of the competition engineering
Scroll down to the bottom to see the "ladder link" bars
69 S&M Cuda
I have the comp ladder link bars on my car and like them alot. IMO it makes sense to have the link the way it is on the bottom of the bar for adjustments. Regular ladder bars that dont have this binde when turning the adjustment buckle..........if you were to measure from the center to center of the two ends they increase in distance as you adjust outwards. With the ladder link there is no binde.
Gd i agree also longer is better.I had double adjustable heims on my bottom bars,The rearend had no bind in them what so ever,which is hard to get out.I used the Koni single stage shocks w/14in springs
have installed both on customers cars . if you are not making really high (1000+ ) hp i'd say ladder bar ! i did some ladder bar kits from chris alston and they were awesome right off the trailer and cost less than the 4 link . when you price the 4 link , remember they dont always come with the rod ends ! the ladder bar kit is easier and if you are not quicker than 9 seconds i think the 4 link is not needed , many cars are quicker than 9's and still have ladders etc. . and the ladder bars did not require cutting the floor ! the 4 link does ! good luck and remember save the whales (mopar wagons )! buy a mopar wagon and save em from the derbys ! ted
I used the Alston Chassisworks ladder bars in my 67 Coronet. Right or wrong, I went with the 36 inch because of the long wheel base.
Since you have all comp engineering parts already I would say stick with them. I run their ladder link bars on mine with no problems car runs 8.50's 1/4 mile. Also as badasmopar said no matter how far you turn the adjuster it will not get into a bind.
ladder bar suspension
Author Topic: ladder bar suspension
I AM CONSIDERING CHANGING OVER TO A LADDER BAR SUSPENSION AS I AM SICK OF THE SUPER STOCK SPRING SET UP LETING ME DOWN, WHAT LENGH LADDER BAR SHOULD I USE ON MY 70 RD RNR? ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS WOULD BWE APPRECAITED.
Go with the ladders you won`t regret it, the longer bars work better with the longer wheelbase the 36" will work great, you can either keep the leafs, to hold the body up,& use a floater or you can install a crossmember & use coilovers with a panhard bar , the second choice is lighter but will lighten your wallet more!
I have ladder bars on my dart, they are 30 inch and i wish they were longer. I would go as long as you can put under the car. Also if you don,t have the book door slammers, the chassis book, i would suggest you get it and read it through to get a better understanding of what will work best for you as far as mounts for the front of the bars, shocks etc. If you can put it in your budget i highly recomend a good double adjustable shock with coil over springs, the ability to adjust the shock in both directions is VERY important. I have AFCOs and i like them. Also plan a well braced front mount for long life.
Yes, get the book! I've had it for years and the newer one is updated...is the car mostly track? You may not like ladder bars on the street as they are somewhat noisy but if you are serious about being fast and consistant, go with em. I like the coilovers better too...Door Slammers: The Chassis Book, is by Dave Morgan.
JANDJ, 36" bars from S&W, remember to brace the 8 3/4! 15 passes and mine was bent at least 1 inch.
From a chassis builders perspective, longer ladder bars are not always better. The industry standard these days is 30 or 32".
The further you move this back and up, the harder you are trying to force the rear axle down and out from under the car. It is kind of hard to explain, but if you can envision a pendulum turned horizontally. The further up you raise the front point, on launch, the rear axle will actually be forced down and the action of the pendulum will in essence try to drive it forward out from under the car. The shorter the bar, the more leverage you have on the rear axle housing.
Ok, long enough description. Personally, I would use a 32" bar with a decent set of coil overs. You will have a good suspenion that will be very tuneable and last you for many years to come.
Anyone install ladder bar system with out tubbing?
Hey guys looking into some options right now.
Ladder bar, weld in a couple bars that I could remove later, like for the c-member and shock mounts
Four-link, not sure if this can be done without tubbing the car.
At this time I might up grade to a Dana, but I would like to know can my Dart hook better with a ladder bar set up with lets say a 29.5 13.5 tire or will the cal-tracts do the job. I was looking at the prices and a complete cal-tract set-up is about the same price as a ladder bar set-up.
I put in ladder bars all the time on stock chassis cars. Is a far better suspension than leaf springs for drag racing.
Yes I did mine that way when I first took it off the street and started trailering it to the races.
My Duster's new 3link is installed w/no tubs. I would highly recommend the Dana!
Yes it is ladderbar/coilover, just easier to type 3link and its synonymous. No side pics, 1.44 60' w/11.5x28" rubber.